Should this be possible?

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Vyper!on
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Should this be possible?

Post by Vyper!on » 26 May 2010, 12:43

From my experiences in games such as PW i know that classes should be equal. No class should be supreme. They should all be equal or vulnerable one to another in a chain (for example WF vulnerabe to EA, EA vulnerable to MG and MG vulnerable to WF. <<this is just a random example do not take it as a truth>>).
In PW i can say that classes are ballanced like this:
Classes with Great attack and great defense are slow in attacks and even movement
Classes with Great attack and great attack speed have the worse possible defense
Classes with Great attack and great chant have low defense
Classes with great defense and great chant have low attack

Warrior for example has great defense and great attack. His attack speed is decent and his stuns make him deadly. Custom offers warrior great attack speed, a lot of dodge that can be around 44,5k, great accuracy and more critical. From my point of view this class benefits a lot from custom especially hell WR that can hit with spear at the 5 attack speed.
WB is in the same situation as WR but he gets less dodge from custom. However wb has alot of HP and a lot of atk power. Interval makes him deadly as well.
I do not know much about EP and WF game play but from what i experienced in my fights vs them EP is not really advantaged by custom and WF is not as advantaged as WR.
MG's real advantage comes from the chant speed that custom offers so i can say he is a good opponent for WB but vs WR is very hard because the stun combos make it impossible for anyone to gain distance.
Finally i got to the class that i play: EA
I will talk more about this class since i know it better than i know the others.
First of all...what is EA? Answer: It is a ranged class with basic physical damage wich can be converted in magic damage. What does that mean? Well...it means that his magic damage skills can miss a lot. It is a class based on attack power, attack speed, critical and dodge.
It is the only class in the game that can kill everyone extremely easy. Also EA has a poor defense that makes him fall very fast in battle. However his dodge prevents him to die that fast when batteling a mele class.
Custom is disadvantaging EA game play i can say (at least that is my oppinion).
Let;s take the case WR vs EA

First Custom vs Custom:
WR has:..............................................EA has:
-Good atk...........................................-Good attack
-Good Defense.....................................-Low Defense
-Good attack speed (max)......................-1,82 max if using dartle shot (not even half of the speed
..........................................................that WR has).
-Isane dodge (can reach 44.5k)...............-good dodge can reach max 25k but it sacrifices
.......................................................... attack speed and defense. That means EA will be 1
...........................................................hit for everyone that touches him.
-Good acuracy (around 20k i think)............- Good acuracy (max 17k)
-Quite a few stun skills that don't...............- 1 stun skil that lasts 3-4 sec and 1 paralyse that lasts
miss that much and that last long................ 8 sec and that misses alot comparing to "lion roar"
-More warsoul weapons to choose..............-only 1 type of ranged weapon.
so that means more bonuses from
weapon.

Now non custom vs non custom:

WR has:.............................................EA has:
-Good atk...........................................-Good attack
-Good Defense.....................................-Low Defense
-Poor attk speed..................................-good attack speed (max speed with fists if wearing r8)
-Low dodge.........................................-good dodge
-Decent acuracy..................................- Decent acuracy
-Quite a few stun skills that don't............- 1 stun skil that lasts 3-4 sec and 1 paralyse that lasts
miss that much and that last long.............. 8 sec and that misses alot comparing to "lion roar"
-More warsoul weapons to choose...........-only 1 type of ranged weapon.
so that means more bonuses from
weapon.


Warriors complain that EA jumps alot and they want the "bug" fixed because they do not like to stun EA's in the air. My EA is dead in 3 sword hits if the WR gets a chance to hit me. So if they stun me on the ground i am dead be4 stun ends.
WR complain that EA's run too much and that they paralyse and stun alot but they have octoarray on spear(seal+paralyse) and they hit with 5 atk speed and also alot of stun skills that can be used in a deadly combo.
EA does not have octoarray on bow and he misses outcold blast and colligion bolt alot.Besides when he uses dartle shot (if dartle gives bonus) he can reach max 1,82 atk speed wich is not even half of the speed custom wr has when he hits with spear (when sparks).
I would like to know....is it only me? or WR is way advantaged and EA is disadvantaged?
I belive octoarray and a bit more interval are needed on bow. If it is fair for a wr to keep me close to him when he atks by paralysing me with spear then i find it normal to keep him at a distance by paralysing him as well even if my atk speed would never reach his.
Vs WB it will be a good advantage too because wb has alot of acuracy and attack power that can break EA's dodge and pwn him in 1-2 seconds without spark.
Vs magic classes such as MG, EP, WF octoarray on bow would not be a great problem because they are ranged as well and also magic attack is not influenced my distance (EA makes half damage if the opponent is too close).

I am waiting for answers to this topic because i want to know if there are other people who think that WR is way too advantaged :)
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Bowfinger » 26 May 2010, 13:02

Can't fault your post at all Vyp, very well written. I agree about the class, I mean, people only have to look at the top 100 list tbh lol.
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panterok
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by panterok » 26 May 2010, 17:26

Can you explain to newbie WR how to reach this >>
a lot of dodge that can be around 44,5k
about other WR's stats: all depends on your eq, if you use light armor set you'll gain more mdef and agi>>acc+crit+dodge but lose in stamina/str>>HP/atk+def. Also diff. weapons will give us diff. possibilities, axes is good for aoe, fists for great dps in 1 target. As well ratation of weap and skills in combat will give us great dps.

About other classes - it isn't right to compare them, coz they all have their unique role in game, for example: how to compare healer(EP) and tank(WB)? You can compare EA,MG and WF and prob. EP(DD build) like ranged DD(damage dealers) or WR and WB(DD build), but still all classes will have their own bonusses.

Also all classes are needed, coz you can't go on TW only with WRs in groups, or you can, but it will be wery funny TW, for your enemies, sure.
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Vyper!on
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Vyper!on » 26 May 2010, 17:49

so u want me to calculate for you? OK
5 stat points are recived for level right? lvl 150 x 5 = 750 available stat points
150 STR points needed for warsou fist that means u have 600 points left to place on AGL.
on 6 pieces of your equip (g15) you can add 3x 10 agl. that means a bonus of 180 AGL. On 4 pieces of jewlery you can add 10 AGL. That means 40 more. On weapon you can add 15 AGL.
So 600+180+40+15=835
25 Extra AGL from heaven book added to 835 gives a total of 860 AGL
WR recives 10 dodge points per 1 AGL point that means for 860 AGL he will have 8600 dodge.
From equips you can get 2700 Dodge and another 2800 from Ashura necklace and pendant.
8600+2700+2800=14100 dodge.
g16 rings have 30% dodge as basic status and 20% more if they are custom so 100% dodge if a wr has 2 custom g16 rings. 20% dodge from necklace, 20% dodge from pendant and 30% dodge from weapon as custom stats.That makes a total of 170% dodge bonus. 50% from own WR buff or from EA buff added to this already existing percent makes 220% dodge.
So let;s count:
220% out of 14100 means 31020
so 14100 basic dodge+ 31020 dodge from percentage = 45120 Total dodge.
such a WR can use spark for deadly attacks and also can use wood/fire/water addon damage.
Since he has such an agility he will get a high critical rate and a good acuracy so if he is using river flows+ spark+pill damage addon when opponent is stunned he is invincible. He can swich for low lvl axe for combo stuns.
Happy with my answer? :)
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panterok
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by panterok » 26 May 2010, 18:22

Vyper!on wrote: Happy with my answer? :)
Yap, I,m =]
Searching for some balance in classes via calculating bonuses from donations is right way to go =]
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Bowfinger » 26 May 2010, 18:37

You really hate warriors don't you Vyp lol
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Vyper!on
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Vyper!on » 26 May 2010, 19:06

Bowfinger wrote:You really hate warriors don't you Vyp lol
Not really. They are really easy to pwn and only few WRs know how to play on LMSPW but still....they are advantaged alot by custom and not only vs EA but vs all classes
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Marengo » 26 May 2010, 22:32

panterok wrote:
Vyper!on wrote: Happy with my answer? :)
Yap, I,m =]
Searching for some balance in classes via calculating bonuses from donations is right way to go =]
i dont know how its going on x200 now, but on x1000 rly a lot of players are donors. without donation all classes are more or less balanced. but the problem is what custom stats give some classes and doesnt give to others.
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Vyper!on
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by Vyper!on » 26 May 2010, 22:51

In my opinion the custom should amplify the already existing advantages of a class not give extra advantages. As everyone knows, EA has -interval on r8 top armor. WR doesn't. Did anybody wonder why? Simple....because WR is not made to have such interval. Anyway...skiping that i go back to my the fact that custom stats should amplify the already existing advantages.
Heavy armor should have extra Pdef, STR and extra HP along with attack power bonus.
Light armors should have interval,AGL, dodge, crit/atk power bonus
Robes should have Mdef, INT, Matk and chant speed.
Since WR can wear light armour as well, when GM customs one of those he should implement a class limitation as well in order to prevent WRs becoming advantaged again.
Without custom EA can reach 5 atk speed anyway and with bow, the speed does not even reach 2 when using dark Dartle shot so no one can complain that EA has too much atk speed because with the custom that is now he shoots 3 arrows in 2 seconds when using dartle shot and wr gives 10 hits in 2 seconds without using anything to gain attack speed.
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Re: Should this be possible?

Post by saki » 27 May 2010, 14:55

Vyper!on wrote:so u want me to calculate for you? OK
5 stat points are recived for level right? lvl 150 x 5 = 750 available stat points
150 STR points needed for warsou fist that means u have 600 points left to place on AGL.
on 6 pieces of your equip (g15) you can add 3x 10 agl. that means a bonus of 180 AGL. On 4 pieces of jewlery you can add 10 AGL. That means 40 more. On weapon you can add 15 AGL.
So 600+180+40+15=835
25 Extra AGL from heaven book added to 835 gives a total of 860 AGL
WR recives 10 dodge points per 1 AGL point that means for 860 AGL he will have 8600 dodge.
From equips you can get 2700 Dodge and another 2800 from Ashura necklace and pendant.
8600+2700+2800=14100 dodge.
g16 rings have 30% dodge as basic status and 20% more if they are custom so 100% dodge if a wr has 2 custom g16 rings. 20% dodge from necklace, 20% dodge from pendant and 30% dodge from weapon as custom stats.That makes a total of 170% dodge bonus. 50% from own WR buff or from EA buff added to this already existing percent makes 220% dodge.
So let;s count:
220% out of 14100 means 31020
so 14100 basic dodge+ 31020 dodge from percentage = 45120 Total dodge.
such a WR can use spark for deadly attacks and also can use wood/fire/water addon damage.
Since he has such an agility he will get a high critical rate and a good acuracy so if he is using river flows+ spark+pill damage addon when opponent is stunned he is invincible. He can swich for low lvl axe for combo stuns.
Happy with my answer? :)
Yea but no warrior here is gonna wear light armour and have 150 str if you think about it. They will sacarfice there physical defences by using light armour and with dodge adorns
server/class/char/guild/lvl
1000x/WB/Zwei/CrssAcdmy/150
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